So, there is nothing stopping people from running rampage murdering innocents, I think there should be a simple system implemented for having multiple counts within a certain time fame.
Such as if you have 5 innocent kills, within say 10 hours of play time make the ressurection timer give a wait, of like 60 seconds. make counts vanish after 1 hour of game play, make innocent people name apear Yellow or blue, and murderers red.
If you have 10 innocent kills within 10 hours, make it give like a 3 minute timer, ect ect....
now i know allot of people will disagree, but even myself would be penalized.
So, there is nothing stopping people from running rampage murdering innocents, I think there should be a simple system implemented for having multiple counts within a certain time fame.
Some time ago I also had a proposal, for some "order" in the futility killings ;)
But most players obviously do not like to have such rules, penalties, etc.
Currently, Wild West look like a peaceful land :)
just a joke
Right i read your post, but you did not go into very much detail of how they could be penalized, this is about the only way unless they get a temporary combat skill loss if killed, like old ultima online (but that was not temporary) i def agre there should be penalties.. and as i stated, i would also suffer from this alike
It would be ressurection time penalties. The more you die the more time u need to ressurect. That will preven mass corpses abuse and other exploits based on mass deaths.
I have not given details because it is important first dev say whether they intend to introduce this kind of system or remain as it is now. Then there are many different options. But I think that necessarily must have a system that deter from the pointless killings ...
ps We are waiting for Dev to express their opinion on this issue :)
We didn't plan aliment mechanics because such mechanics actually didn't work anywhere. If players get too low penalties - they go and kill everybody as they do now. If penalties are to high - there is no point to kill and it stops player killing at all.
And second - we make a pvp sandbox, not a sandbox with possibilities of pvp. It is planed that people would fight each other for resources, armor, or simply because they hate each other.
@Angrrrry like infinite skulls,.. being honest, i'm a KOS Player, the BRs (Brazileans) and ARGS (Argentinians) hate each other, and they're more, we are at a disadventage, they play more and they're "PAY PLAYERS" each one have a title, mount, and premium time buyed.. and they're like 8 men. Right now i'm lonewolf player (team on vacations) so, the only way to survive, is kill everybody on sight (no one of these killed me after my first completly palisade base by the way.. fighting 3 at time)
Make a penalty for murderers is no point right now, the medieval life was hard, and the people kills other people for stupid reasons like different way of thinking, religion, and just for the race, language, etc.
BUT, if there can be a "COMMUNITY SYSTEM" (or clan/kingdom) that can UNITE a couple of dominums on a radius by a "Clan/King Dominium", there can be a Law System, where you can set and disable rules, safety zone (no damage on clan members), if something like that can be created, a penalty for mudereres or an allignament like "Noble or Bandits" will be really good!
At this moment of developement, it's no point IMO.
(SORRY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH!)
You're wrong about one thing that does not work anywhere, but will not enter into a dispute about it - many examples.
I'll tell you my point of view:
PvP - It must be regarded as a world powered only by the players, where anyone can face each in a different aspect, be it fights, building castles, trade and so on. Wrong perception is that PvP is only for killing and loot between the players.
Developers focus all their energy into it to be able to kill and loot, make pvp(hard) sandbox, but time has shown that this is the wrong policy. For that reason exactly PvP games (servers) die quickly because hard PVP players are less.
A game to succeed, need to offer everything. See the server PvP and PvE in which there are more players. PvE - Most players want to develop and have some protection, but also willing and able to fight. If you know that in PvP server will be killed permanently, the PvE player will not go into it, but on the other hand the game is not farmvale and after a while they will get tired of collecting resources and quit. The game started in the right direction with the server "Novus". But from there split into PvP and PvE and development goes only in PvP direction. in PvP to be understood more killing and loot. Do not get me wrong, I'm PvP focused player, but I witnessed how this way leads only to quick killing the game. I do not want this to be just another pvp sandbox game...
The Golden Mean is a mixed server where you have protection to develop, and be able to lead battles. Of course the most important thing is the rules where none became not disadvantaged in favor of the other.
Here are actually what is my vision: (always have another) - Have to introduce several things:
1 - Announcement of the war - declaring itself is to have protection, rules. It may be not a declaration of war, but it is a direction
Castles: To attack the castle of someone, it must first declare war. The announcement lasts a certain time during which the defender can prepare. As now build siege weapons (it's like a declaration of war 8:00). After time runs out, it can now be attacked. You go build catapults, etc. and attacking the castle.
Killing: Having declared war on someone, then you can kill in each zone (and peaceful), during the war. without being considered a punishment.
The war can last a certain time or until the signing of a primate from both sides.
Declaring war is different depending on which zone the castle opponents. If castle in a peaceful area, the preparation (time) is longer. Example: Peace - 12 hours / No Peace - 6:00
After the war, the participants can not declare war again (between them) for some time, 72 hours, 7 days, etc.
With the introduction of war - anyone can attack anyone when he wants and where he wants and will not be punished. At the same time players know from who to run and with who lead battles.
These are only orientations that I can think of at the moment. It can always develop better idea
2 - Penalty system.
Here my idea is if someone kills for certain time (72 h), for example 10 players his name become red. To change the color again back to neutral, it must pass a certain time, depending on how many players he killed.
- If you kill 5 to 9 players in interval 72 hours, then your name becomes blue
- If you kill 10 or more players in the interval 72 hours, then your name becomes red.
To regain a neutral color, it must pass e a certain time without killing anyone.
- blue - then any killing = 4 hours (max 9 * 4 = 36 hours without the murders).
- red - then any killing = 5 hours (10 * 5 = 50 hours .... 100 * 5 = 500;)).
Red color - someone sees it will know that its dangerous and has warned. Also, red color, can be attacked and killed in peaceful areas without being considered a punishment for the other player.
- Peaceful and non-peaceful -
Non-peaceful - Nobody is protected. In these areas can not build simple dominium just special, wich have a greater range and have a hight defense and hit points.
Peaceful - You can not kill players (unless their name is red) and I can not attack the castle . The only way to attack the castle is when declaring war. Dominium: less defend and hit points
it's a small part of big plan, just as a guideline. Everything's example, just to understand the idea...
what good is the being a murderer/innocent? there is still no penalty, needs a respawn timer added to make them have penalty or lower their skills temporary time.
peace zone sorry it sounds not cool to me
The declaring war sounds great tho.
Shadow is 199% corect on WHY hardcore PVP games die, and not having ANY penalty system has taken our NA server from peaking around 60 on a good day, to peaking at 20 on a good day. Mostly because we have people that have been playing for a month non stop harrasing the new players. most of the time the new players cannot even get a full set of stone tools before the kids running atempting to kill the game find them 5vs1 (and the new player is not even 5 minutes in the game) ... seen the same players attacking picket fences to steal... well i dunno what is inside a picket fence that is so interesting to these kids with metal tools... grief? it is basicly what we have going on. a grief game not a hardcore sandbox pvp ... no murdering penalities, its bad.. even I MYSELF would suffer from these penalties, but i cannot afford to kill ANYONE at this time except the sheep pretending to be wolves, because i want population... so i cant murder even if i want to at this time, THERE NEEDS TO BE PENALTIES! A LONGER RESPAWN TIMER //////TEMPORARY SKILL LOSS????? Needs to be implimented asap
@ShadowBG you have suggested to remake WT to UO. And actually UO is one of the games, where karma system didn't worked.
Mixed server was a mistake, that's why we split it to pve and pvp. The main problem was that "peaceful" thieves attacked pvp players from peace zones and they could not be punished, because they live in antiharm zone! This fact totally ruined gameplay.
About killing new players - yes it is a problem, there are several ways to fix this issue.
Killing new players stimulates them to build faster and do walls. As well as find groups to protect them and organize something like a guild. If u want to play sim farm - go play pve server. U can stay in safe zone for months there. With no any threat to your life. THats my personal oppinion. If i see some1 chopping tree i wont let him go antil i'll check his corpse for some valuables )
There is no "guild" no safe way to trust a new player... you trust them and help them, you come back to nothing :)
There is a way to make penalties. Bounty system is largely used in the medival age. This game allow the cutting of head as proof. So the more the player kills anyone can raise a bounty with head to claim it.
Until they are just buddies and they let him take the head and just split your loot with them :) already had that happen to me remember? the lunivarus kid, i was ready to let anyone kill me
Well you can choose who to give the bounty to.
But what i am recommending is a more system based bounty hunting. Like if you get bounty hunted you get a debuff or penalties which make having such friend not worth the time to implement.
Penalties such as you permanently lost recipe or skills. I dun think friend will like losing skills for some copper. But i will love to use irons to make my enemies impotent since we are using iron on weapon any way.
But to prevent misused. Bounty can only be used if the killer loot your corpse or kill you more than 3 times. N
o loot no robbing, no bounty can be place. Also player to player can declare war. When that happen no bounty can be inccurred.
I can't help myself, I HAVE to respond.
EDIT: I did just read the announcement that in a future update sieges are going to take time now to prepare, which I think is a good step into the right direction, but I am still going to keep my thoughts here as there may be some good ideas for the developers here they didn't think of themselves.*
I think that the entire idea of sieges and the ability to destroy big walls like pallisades and castle walls should just have to go.
If you look at it realistically, a castle siege would require hundreds of soldiers, on both sides. And even then, slamming into a wall with huge rocks to take it down so you can enter, it is going to require a LOT OF time and rocks to do so... Walls don't just go down like that easily.
Now, of course, building a castle to begin with would also require hundreds of people, but let's for the sake of gameplay and fun leave that one as is.
Maybe we should treat this world just a little bit differently from the "real" world, and allow the building of castles but not include sieges of castles.
Here is my suggestion:
Fences - Easily destroyed
Pallisade - Only destroyable by use of siege weapons
Castle Wall - Can't be destroyed
- Of course, there can be small changes to this idea, but it is a rough idea
This will create two things. It will create (very small) safe zones on the PvP servers, because if you can't destroy someone's walls, they can hide behind it. This will eliminate a lot of bad behaviour, such as waiting for someone to go offline in order to completely raid them empty.
It will also create communities much quicker, because a group of people can build themselves a safe haven MUCH quicker than single people. So, if you want to have a safe spot to hide in, you better work together. I also gave some ideas on "shared"
I really think that is the direction this game should take. Because right now, I think a lot of players get frustrated with PvP because they constantly have to start over and a lot of PvE players get frustrated because after they finish their base there is not a lot to do. This way, you can have both.
PvP minded players now have at least a small safe place where they can store some things so they don't have to start from nothing because someone destroyed their base while they were sleeping, and people who enjoy base building and communities can still find the thrill of getting killed while they venture out into the big bad world.
Even better, these two different players can specialize in their play style and benefit from the other people's playstyle, because while the PvP-ers go out raiding for supplies, their PvE friends can then use those supplies to build up the dominion. And when those PvP-ers feel like having some downtime and enjoy farming, they don't have to be affraid to get griefed, and when the PvE-ers feel like going out on a thrilling adventure where death is a very real possibility, they can do that without having to go to another server either.
So it should also have some changes to the Dominion system, maybe like I suggested in my two suggestion threads.
I think this direction is a sure Win-Win, and actually make the game feel more realistic, but I look forward to discussing this further!
@Nightmare I do not want to remake WT to UO, I do not remember how it was karma system . Аt this stage the game is close to Darkfall.
Each system works some more effectively others not so. The systems are not to be observed by all, and by the majority. It's like driving. If the road has a limit of 80 kilometers. you decide whether to follow or not. If you want to drive with 200 OK, Nobody tells you with what speed to drive, but if drive over 80 you will be punishment. You decide.
Have to think of Golden Mean. Can not please everyone, but most...and these are PvE. But as I said and @Daniel36 very soon they got last level of development, it will get tired.
As for the problem with "peaceful" thieves.
Can always resolve. Yes more difficult than to separate servers, but if want the game to have a long life, separation is not the way...
In this zone, Players can not be killed unless they are punished (red name). Can be built only basic and small dominium. Buildings can not be destroyed. In this zone can not build some advanced buildings and siege weapons.
Thus new players are protected. Those who want to play PvE also have the option, but if they want rare resources must go to danger zones or to buy them from other players. Also, if they want to grow more, they have to move and build in other zones.
Player with dominium in this zone can not build and use siege weapons
If player with dominium in this zone kill someone, then its buildings can be destroyed, for a certain time, and he might be killed in the protected zone (his name and dominium turns red).
If player with dominium in this zone is killed by someone, for a certain time, he can kill, his attacker without its buildings become destructible. (his name remains normal) – revenge
if he wants to attack some castle, it must declare war, and must pass for example 48 hours before he can attack. By The announcement of war, his buildings can be attacked (during those 48 hours that he can not begin to attack). Also, after the war ends (lasts a certain time 48 hours), its buildings can still be attacked for certain time(12h). - All time is indicative.
With the declaration of war,he can build and use siege weapons. All time is indicative.
Buildings decay - Low
In this zone, everyone can be killed, but the murderer suffers punishment, if not proceed to no penalty. Can be built only basic, small and large dominium. In this zone can not build a brick wall ...
- Declaring war - after 24h can attack.
- Buildings decay - AVERAGE
In this zone, everyone can be killed, NO penalty. Can be built all dominium and buildings.
- Declaring war - after 12h can attack.
Buildings decay - HIGHT
For Yellow and Red zone can be added and other things. May in some zones walls and buildings to have more durability and so on. May have special buildings that are only for defined zones.
P.S. Of course these are all proposals, you decide what how and why
That is an incredibly good and detailed idea, basically the same what I was thinking, but much better thought out! You should make this a seperate thread for it!
i think the pvp its good as it is, making penalties. or pvp by zone or time. will afect thos players who cant play the whole day. its a survival not a farmville. either join a pve server. or find the way to survive the pvp ones. there must be better ways to fix the xploits. but pleas enot red or yellow zones. i've seen this in other games and it didnt work. ..
people allway find the way to cheat when the is pvp by zones. ;)
People will always find exploits regardless.
But this idea is not about fixing exploits, it's about bringing players with different playstyles together.
The player base isn't huge, and right now the player base is being split.
Yes, it's a survival and not a farmville, which is why after playing for a while the pve people may get a little bored. It's also not a murder and pillage sim, which is why maybe the pvp people will get frustrated after a while.
Which is why Shadow and I are putting ideas to paper to give people a chance to enjoy a different playstyle on the same server, with the same character, should they choose.
And we are not suggesting making pve areas and making pvp areas, we are suggesting making areas where killing is not possible but where it is also not possible to upgrade your Dominion very far, and areas where you can get a lot of rewards (ore and such) and where you can build bigger Dominions, but where you can also be killed.
Shadow also didn't make his map that way by accident. If you look at it, you can't quickly flee to the safe area from the pvp area. There is a large yellow area in between them. Yes, there will be people hanging out on the border between green and yellow, but they will never get to the good stuff that way, and if they kill someone in the yellow area, they won't be safe in the green area anyways, as per the suggestions.
So it pays to go into more dangerous areas, but if you don't want to, you don't have to. Right now, it is either full pvp, or full pve, but there are probably a large amount of people who want both.
And I am pretty sure that most of the diehard pve people wouldn't mind it if their Dominion stayed small, just as much as the diehard pvp people wouldn't mind if there were safe areas. The pvp people and pve people would probably live mostly seperate, but there is a chance of meeting each other and I think that is a really good idea.
Zones.. .meh........ the game is going to die like rust and ark without any penalty system, people did not just run around crazy killing and murdering, without any penalty, in real life.... might as well let this idea go about penalty system, it doesn't get attention, so unfortunately....kind of a big thing, but zones are uncool in my opinion. Game is getting attention in the wrong places at the wrong time, going to end up being another "could have been" for me and allot of others